00:01:59
I also do content on Douyin, so Chinese TikTok, 70,000 fans. And I do content on WeChat as well, which is the WhatsApp super app in China. And I also am an entrepreneur. So I work with a number of different clients. My entity is called Brick bridge. It's a British guy in China. And that bridge between the West and China, East and West. My business is called Brick bridge. My biggest client is a client called Emerging Comms. So I'm the head of partnerships and consultant. I have boots on the ground here in China. And Emerging Comms is a digital marketing and consultancy firm, very focused on B2B and activation, digital activation here in China, PR as well. So we pretty much do top of funnel sales, B2B marketing and growing brands here in China.
00:02:54
I also have a business called Brick bridge. I have a number of other clients. I work with another client called Regroup China, who do something very similar, different. Also, they do education and B2C as well. So working with a number of particularly marketing firms that work with other brands and then growing them here in China. And I will add a little note is actually we're expanding out of China now. So we're actually looking at other markets, emerging markets like in Southeast Asia, with Vietnam, Indonesia, Korea, Japan, and other firms. So we've just signed a new JV with a tech provider called Synerbis out of Australia, which is exciting news. So we do the marketing. They do the tech. Nice. What an impressive introduction. Really, I really like how you talked about your current endeavours and also who you actually are.
00:03:50
I have a question because you said that you arrived to China 14 years ago. So was it always your plan to go to China or it just happened and you just felt in love from the day number one when you actually arrived? So I'd always had a childhood interest in China. I used to watch Bruce Lee movies, you know, in the UK. And I'd always see stuff on the BBC and in the news about how China's the next economic superpower. And I'd always had an interest in the culture and history. And it kind of left an impression on me. So when I went to university, I knew in the first week I was never going to be a lawyer. So I studied international law at university and sat down in the lecture and I just thought, this is not for me.
00:04:37
I'm never going to be a judge, a barrister, solicitor, lawyer. But law is a great degree. So I didn't want to quit. And I made some Chinese friends at university and they were telling me about China and Hong Kong and how vibrant it was. And I said, well, I've always had an interest in China as a region. And they said, well, if you like China so much, why don't you go to China? I thought, what a brilliant idea. So my law degree had an exchange program with the University of Hong Kong. And that was a great starting point, a great way to ignite my journey here in China. So I originally went as an exchange student. And then after my law degree, I got a scholarship, which not a lot of people know about.
00:05:20
There are loads of scholarships here in China that you can study pretty much anything. And I went to a city called Tianjin, which is the port city of Beijing. And I got my Chinese up to pretty good conversational fluency level pretty much. Congratulations. That's a really difficult language, I heard. I didn't try. But you must speak many languages, right? Yes, but not Chinese. Right. Can you tell us more about the B2B? Because you mentioned the BRIC bridge. Also Emerging Coms, et cetera. What do you actually do when it comes to the B2B? Is it like a service-based or like what kind of companies usually are you interested in and what business you usually do with them? At the moment, we're seeing a lot with life sciences, so that's biotech, medical equipment, any kind of research companies, CROs would be one.
00:06:19
Also PBSA, so student accommodations that we see around universities. There's kind of professional professionals looking to stay accommodation manufacturing firms. So anyone that's doing things like tubing or producing something would be would be one professional services and financial services. So it could be in capital markets, firm venture capital, but literally any company that is selling business to business and targeting could be high net worth individuals or other businesses in China. We're just seeing an explosion here in China right now. Um, B2B. B2C has had quite a drop, I'd say in China; it’s not impossible to do business if your brand could be a cosmetics brand or or you're selling clothing or some sort of tangible product, there's still opportunities here in China, but it's getting more and more challenging.
00:07:14
You know, the local competition is rife, but as a B2B company, you're coming into China really at an unfair unfair advantage, and that’s what you want to be in with China. That is. The secret formula to China is is having an unfair advantage, which most B2B brands have. So it's a lot about, for example, collaboration of two different businesses together to come up with a new service, new products, something innovative. It's no longer really focusing on the end consumer, but rather coming together B2B and doing business together as two entities. Let’s say. Exactly. So it could be a company that's looking for distributors or looking for other research partners that really to get the word out there. But we're just seeing a huge rise in companies coming to China.
00:08:08
There's been almost like a new wave of interest in China literally in the last month. So you've seen things with Red Note, the TikTok refugees. You've also seen just an interest in China, which has been a really exciting time for me in my business because I've seen the rise and I've always promoted China as a country to really do business with so much opportunity. And it's great to see a lot of companies from all over the world coming in, even the US. We're seeing a lot of interest in US, despite the tariffs. So it's great. It's a really great time to enter and also tap into this market. Oh, yeah. I'm mainly asking because actually my brother, he has an e-shop and he's doing with China that he's actually like importing the products from China and then he's reselling it here in the Czech and Slovak markets.
00:09:08
So just asking about the trends because then I can also give him some tips if he will be watching this episode. But talking about. The TikTok refugees and you being on Red Note, WeChat, and other really popular Chinese social media platforms, what trend do you see right now with the TikTok? So like when there is a there is coming ban in the US of the TikTok for those who might not know from our audience, is there a trend like that, for example, because what I see here in Instagram and LinkedIn, people are trying to accommodate. People are trying to accommodate. People from TikTok on the new platforms, they are telling them, OK, just keep calm. If you did it on TikTok, you can do it here. Just keep going with your niche.
00:10:00
And these are the few tips that you can do. What trends do you currently see with this TikTok refugees? So the first thing is TikTok. I don't think they'll ever ban it. There's too much money in that platform, you know, to just ban it or maybe it'll be sold off in the US. I mean, obviously TikTok is a big thing. TikTok Shop is huge in the US. We've read what I always say to people is it's the easiest platform to scale on in the world. If I created a Facebook or an Instagram account today, I would find it very challenging, despite my expertise and what I do to scale that kind of platform. And everybody wants more fans, more likes, more comments, more engagement. We've read ourselves. You could post this podcast.
00:10:47
You could post this podcast or the content that you're doing, I've seen the some of the stuff you're doing on LinkedIn, which is superb, it would blow up in China because Chinese audiences really want to find out about the West. They want to find out what's going on. They have that inquisitive mind, which is really, really great. The other thing I'll say about Chinese audiences is they're really nice. So the worst criticism I get is Mr. Bean, which isn't bad as a criticism, right? Yeah. You know, if I put stuff on TikTok or Instagram, I get people commenting on the way I look or it's a nice audience. So Red was actually just to give you a very brief history in less than 30 seconds, essentially, they kind of saw the Instagram model and created something very similar.
00:11:38
And it was actually originally for aunties, so kind of older Chinese ladies here in China that was exchanging shopping ideas. And advice on different makeups and products that they were buying. And it's become this phenomenon. So the other thing about Red, no, is whatever you've created before, you could repackage that onto Red Note very easily. And I will say this as a platform, I mean, good luck contacting Facebook and Instagram and speaking to their team. I've got a great relationship with Red. No, they're very open as a team. You know, to speak to their team, say, oh, you know, that's imagine having a contact at TikTok that was giving you advice on what to do.
00:12:25
So I think whether you're a person building a brand or a company or a school or anything, university, you can really an NGO, I've seen NGOs on there as well, you can grow very, very easily. And the biggest trend I'm seeing, obviously, is this migration coming over. But also, audiences, even more audiences are coming on, so it's not just the creators coming on, you've got to think it's the more Chinese audience coming on, but it's also Western audiences. What doesn't get said about Red Note is, Red Note is a very affluent platform, so the audience on there, they're open-minded, they're interested in studying, working abroad, they've got money. Right. So if you're selling some sort of product or service, it's a very high net worth kind of audience, whereas I guess Facebook, Instagram, anyone can use it in the world, you know, no matter where you are on the on the poverty line or how rich you are.
00:13:27
But Red Note, it's it's very focused towards kind of first-tier cities in China. So people have got money on that platform and it's a nice audience. They engage with content and they want to see foreigners on there. They want to see foreigners on there. And it's not from a security or stealing data. Or anything like that. It's genuinely because Chinese have an inquisitive mind, which is what I've always been attracted to with this culture in this country, you know, people are genuinely interested in you in the UK. No one's interested in me when I walk down the street, I go to Chinatown, London, all of a sudden people, I see your content, so it's as a foreigner being embraced by a country like that is is a special feeling as well.
00:14:16
You know, it's it's it's what we all want, right? We want to be, you know, build something special and then see it growing on the platform. So everybody in Europe can, for example, download download Red Note or WeChat, and they can start to post on these applications if they want, because I never actually tried. I don't know why, but I thought that these applications, they are just not available here in Europe or that there might. Might be like restrictions in a very you are located because I actually had before I joined our podcast today, I had the problem of it, one Belgian application because my family is located in Czechia and my mom, she's using one application and the application gave her error that she's currently in Czech Republic.
00:15:06
So she cannot use this application, which is only for the Belgian audience and we are in the European Union and it's like, I don't know, like eight hours by car from each other from. These two different countries, but it's just so annoying. So I was thinking that maybe like these applications are only for Chinese citizens or like people being in China, but definitely after this podcast, I will try to download it and look about this out there. Certainly, I mean, I will say with WeChat, sometimes there is some verification and rightly so, like they don't want everyone using the platform. They want people that are genuinely interested in China or have some interest in China. So sometimes you may need to have a Chinese friend or someone like me is on the ground here in China and to help you with verification and codes and things like that.
00:15:57
You know, and it makes sense. It just keeps things more secure. But yeah, with a lot of these platforms, you can sign up like you would with Facebook or TikTok or Instagram quite easily. And yeah, just start interacting with with the platform. And the great thing about these platforms now is that the translation in them is incredible, so you don't have to speak Chinese. It does help, but the actual translating part, you can just pretty much put stuff in English and then obviously I can see with all this, all these like cat cut and all these editing tools. Now you can you can translate into Chinese. It's not 100% yet. The AI, the AI is still working, but I will actually on another tangent.
00:16:45
Obviously, you've seen recently with DeepSeek, which is the Chinese version of ChatGPT, their translation model is a lot better than ChatGPT because it's built on a Chinese model. So if you want to translate English into Chinese, DeepSeek would be the better, better version for research. Some things probably better with ChatGPT because some things are blocked and sensitive in China, but the AI is getting very, very good with translation right now. So to use these platforms. Also, they have that built-in translation features, so it's quite accessible. I actually didn't know that DeepSeek is Chinese. I know that there is now a big boom here in Europe and US about DeepSeek that everybody is migrating to it from ChatGPT because it's open source. So everybody currently loves it. They try to get there.
00:17:37
People just cannot register because there are so many registrations at the same time. But I didn't know that it's Chinese. That's interesting. I already tested it. I tested it actually yesterday and I was missing the voice recognition because I really like to speak from time to time with my ChatGPT, like, you know, you go for a walk, you are like just inside your head and then you just put in your headphones ChatGPT and you start to brainstorm while like speaking with ChatGPT so that he asks you questions, you ask him questions, etc. And Deep Seek doesn't have this function, which I was quite missing when I was testing it yesterday. But I guess we will see this evolution pretty soon because how the AI is evolving is pretty impressive.
00:18:26
I have a question which is about misconceptions. So what are some of the biggest misconceptions Western brands have when trying to enter the Chinese market and how they can adapt their strategies for success? Well, I think it begins with. Well, I think it begins with. Preparation and mindset. So a lot of brands and I see this with British companies in particular as they come in with a British mindset. Now, that doesn't work in China, right? You have to localize yourself. I had to come to this country. You're a guest in a country that you enter, so you should respect its customs and its cultures. So don't change yourself completely as a brand or a company. But, you know, retain that essence because that's your unfair advantage.
00:19:15
Coming to China with any brand is you've got something that they probably don't have right now, whether it's a historic historic name has got heritage behind it. But I see a lot of brands coming in. They come in thinking they can do things on the cheap, but you've got to have a decent budget when you come into China and you've got to have, you know, I guess to use a bit of a political analogy with the Chinese government, you've got to have a five-year plan. You can't try China for three months, which I've seen with many companies. Oh, let's try it for three months or even a year. It's like, no, you're either in or you're out. You can't just test China.
00:19:54
So big misconception is brands come in very arrogantly and think, well, my brand does so well in in Europe or the UK or US, so it's going to do well in China. No, you'll get eaten alive here. So coming to China, you've really got to be prepared. You've got to have a decent budget. You've also got to be open with your pain points. Now, what are your pain points when it comes to coming to China? Is it potentially you're getting some clients in China, but you want more and you're trying to work out, OK, how do I actually convert that that audience into two real customers? So there's a number of things I see, but I think it's the prerogative coming to China, which I see the most.
00:20:39
And come to China is a big one. A lot of brands are looking at China. They don't even make the trip. And there's so many free visas here. You can stay here for a couple of weeks now. I think the US and the UK are one of the only countries in the world that don't allow that right now, but pretty much you're from any country in the world right now. You can come here for two weeks, come and see China, come and see what's happening here. You know, the innovation, the tech, meet the local people. It's probably one of the safest countries in the world. It's everybody's friendly. I've never had any issues here. So it's; it's one of those. You know, you've got to really understand the market, but you can't do it alone.
00:21:20
Another misconception is that I can I can do this alone or I can just do this with an inbuilt Chinese team. I'll just hire some Chinese people and have that in-house team. No, you've got to have an outsider. So you've got to have an agency that knows what they're doing, has the case studies to back it up and that you like them. You've got to know what they like and, you know, know what. How each other tick. So it's not being afraid to do this with an outside partner that knows the market and also being a little bit hesitant with China, relying too much on what's happening in the news. I mean, a lot of the stuff I see on the BBC news is wrong about China.
00:22:05
I know because I live on the ground here. I see what's happening every day. So, you don't really understand the country until you come and you visit and you meet. So now more than ever is the time to come to China because there's just this explosion of interest in both China and the West coming together. So, you know, not, and I think another misconception with with China is, oh, it's a scary market. Oh, it's communism. Oh, spooky. So, no, like there are opportunities wherever you look. And. I think the life I've lived here, I've been very lucky and for the wonderful opportunities. And I would love to see more brands, more B2B companies entering and really taking advantage of the market here because you're always coming in at an unfair advantage.
00:23:08
I really like what you said about that. You should know the market, that you should have some agencies, some outsourcing. You should have some insiders there who can actually tell you like how to behave and not be just arrogant when you are coming. I can do it alone. I just came from UK and I am here now. I am here now. And I will not respect, for example, your culture, traditions, et cetera. But I really like how they are doing it in London because London is investing a lot in attracting investors and attracting the businesses. And they do a lot of marketing campaigns around. Come to do your business in London. There is a lot of different agencies that are actually like putting a lot of money into marketing for it.
00:23:55
But I didn't see a lot in China or like that I would be attracted or like targeted by the advertisement, like come and do business in China, for example. I see a lot, for example, Dubai, Singapore. I see London also. Some countries in Europe. So I see that I'm targeted, but I never got targeted by China. So, like, is it that they want to just keep it slow? They have different strategy or how come that they are doing it differently or. Yeah, I think it does relate to Chinese culture, Chinese culture. They're generally quite humble, right? It's a humble culture when you speak to them as well. So there's an element of that. It comes. It comes from Confucian times where they don't want to be all song and dance and and do these glitzy YouTube videos.
00:24:53
I'll come to our country and invest. I mean, it's a case of. They also don't want a barrage of companies coming to China as well. And I think that actually creates quite an interesting opportunity because I wouldn't enter Dubai right now. Way too saturated. Hmm. I've seen. So many people become agents, you know, proxy agents. And it's interesting what's happening there. And I know they're building casinos and things like that now. But with China. They don't need to be all come and invest in us. There are agencies that do that, but it's more localized. And I guess you've also got to think that, you know, on LinkedIn, you're not going to see those big ads. You've got guys like me that are kind of promoting China in a way.
00:25:42
But it's an interesting is an interesting thought that actually I haven't considered-there's not massive ads about invest in China, right? Because I think they know how big they are. And if you're a company that sees the opportunity, then you're going to go for it. So you're seeing a lot more on the tourism side now. So particularly with Shanghai and some of these places in China, you are seeing a little bit more of a push to get foreigners to at least visit. But yeah, it's interesting. I think it does come down to the culture and the fact that China isn't really struggling to get companies to come here, right? I mean, the UK, right now, is really it's not the UK I knew in the 90s.
00:26:26
You know, I mean, there's talks that it might go bankrupt and that we could talk all day about why that is. But, you know, China's got a lot of ambition and it's whether you want to be a part of that. And you talk about that. So I think it's important to utilize that market, that one point three billion people and and build something special. Yeah, I also have an impression that they know how economy works because economy is one of the wheels of the country. They know how economy works, but they like to keep things under control. So like, yeah, we will do business with you. There are our terms. You will notice how authentic and how great we are doing stuff. But here are the terms.
00:27:14
And either we agree on this or not. Like it. I have an impression when I'm also speaking with you also what I know from, for example, different Asian countries, how they are also speaking about China, etc. That it seems to me that they know how business works, but they want to also have it under control with how they are keeping the stuff working there. And there's some truth in that. Absolutely. Why not? I sometimes wish the UK would do more of that kind of stuff. Like, no, you're not going to assimilate into British culture and the way we do things. No. You know, if I wanted to go to Saudi Arabia and just enforce my views on them, I wouldn't be allowed.
00:27:56
So I think that gets blurred a little bit in the UK with all human rights and things. It's like, well, hold on a second. I'm coming in as a guest. And I should respect that country's laws and the way they do things. I think the other interesting thing about that now is you're seeing a lot of Chinese companies wanting to do business outside of China. So they're wanting to do business and they're having to learn that as well. They're having to learn that the way we do things in the West, sometimes we're very direct. You know, when we shake someone's hand, we're firm. But the way they shake hands, it's you're humble. You know, so it might feel like a dead fish when you when you shake someone's hand in China.
00:28:42
It's like it's not it's they're being respectful. So cultural communication is so key. And you are right. There is some this idea of it's on on their terms. Absolutely. But you've also you've got negotiating power with China. And if you present. No brainer kind of deal with a Chinese investor. B2B partner, then it doesn't necessarily you know, you can meet consensus. It's not always on their terms. So that would be another misconception sometimes that, you know, Chinese are not very forgiving with business. I've actually had the opposite. I feel dealing with the Chinese is swift. You know, they see an opportunity. They go for it. My biggest beef I've had sometimes with the UK in particular is things are slow. And even I've got a few German clients who I love.
00:29:41
I love German clients because they're very loyal. But in the beginning, culturally, they want to pick apart the engine and they want to have a look inside; the Chinese, by contrast. I don't want to generalize too much, but my experience with Chinese businesses, they see an opportunity to go for it. You know, it's very entrepreneurial. It's very. Let's take a risk. Let's go for this. So. It's. Yeah, it's the case of every country. I wish the UK was sometimes a bit more like China and sometimes the stuff that happens in China. I wish it was a bit more like the UK is finding that equilibrium. This is why we are here. And if you are listening to us right now, take that risk. Take a bit from the mindset of the Chinese spirit here in the business.
00:30:29
Take the risk that you were thinking about for years. Sometimes. Even decades. And just go ahead and try it because we learn the most from the failures at the end. And in the worst case, you will fail and you will try again. I mean, this is the life. So we should get a bit of speed into our mindset. And also, like how we are doing things here in Europe is also like when you're trying a business in Europe, it's like everybody is like putting you down. Like, yeah, sure. Your little thing and stuff like this. Until you don't have like millions on the account and you're not in the news. Like everybody is like putting you, you know, like in your place. Like, yeah, sure. Like the little stuff that you're doing.
00:31:13
I know you should be poor because you are an entrepreneur and things like this. I mean, just realistically speaking, like in Asia, it seems to me just more realistic. Like, yeah, just try. Go for it. Like use your opportunity. Like launch it. Try it. Repeat it if it's successful. Of course, you don't want to repeat the failure. But speaking about the trends and also about the branding strategy. So are there, for example, some differences in the key elements of successful brand strategy that resonates with Chinese consumer in comparison with the Western culture? So what are the trends currently? Yeah. So that's a really great question when it comes to, I guess, branding and marketing with China. And again, it depends on the product, the service, whatever it is.
00:32:08
But I'll give you a great example, which would be, let's say, comparing Christmas with Chinese New Year. Right. Two very both happened recently. Two very different kind of branding exercises. Christmas is about presence. It's about family. It's about giving. The similarity with China is family. But Chinese New Year is about money. Right. It's like we wish you good fortune. We wish you good health. Go out and be rich. So it's a lot of family advertising, but it's also this idea of being aspirational. Now, Christmas isn't about being aspirational. It's about you spent your money on the presents. Right. So we've tried with Chinese. Chinese marketing and branding right now. You've got this idea of going back to the traditional roots. So look at is the year of the snake right now.
00:33:09
It's using ancient historical poetry and idioms and things like that about the snake. But also you're seeing this, which is it does apply. It does attract that younger audience and old audience. But what you're also seeing in a lot of the market in China is things like games. So you're seeing mobile gaming in order to attract users, to attract content and giveaways as well. Christmas. I don't really think it's about giveaways, is it? But Chinese marketing, particularly around Chinese New Year, is about giveaways and red pockets and money. And you sign up to this. So it's a lot more of an interactive process. Whereas I'd say Christmas is pretty much you either buy the presents. You get them online or maybe you watch a bit of TV. Right.
00:34:00
But they really put a lot of emphasis on Chinese culture, new and old. I think you may have seen the news. They've got the they're the robots dancing. Did you see that in the news with their spring gala, which is this big TV show that they have every year? It's called Trumwan in Chinese. It was it was big news. These robots that were dancing and spinning plates almost. So it's this bringing the new and the old together. Right. It's about innovation every year with Christmas. I don't really see it innovating. It's pretty much the same marketing I had when I was a kid. So I think to relate it to any brand or company coming to China is like you've got to be adaptable every year.
00:34:48
You know, you're up against local partners, but also you're having to consolidate. You're constantly better yourself every year. You have an element of that in the West, but you probably have Coca-Cola does its classic Father Christmas advert. And, you know, you might have some other brands doing their classic kind of Christmas adverts. But China, when it comes to marketing, is about being adaptable, giving some of the audience really they've never seen before and making it very fun, making it interactive for that audience. So That's one trend that a lot of brands have to be aware of, is it's a fruitful market. But you've also got to be on your toes with China, you know, you've got to constantly be branding because that that audience.
00:35:39
I think if you were to do studies and I think they have actually on attention spans, particularly Chinese audiences, is if you put them in front of a phone, you've got to grab their attention the first second. I know in the West, usually it's like one, two, three swipe. But in China, it's like one swipe. Right. So that the audience is it's got a shorter attention span. So you've got to grab their attention even more. You know, it's like small children using TikTok nowadays. You don't grab their attention. They're going to swipe. But in China. It's got to be glitzy. It's got to be glamor. It's got to be really engaging from the offset. Hmm. I really like what you said about the dark. Com.
00:36:19
Not comparing new to old, but they are rather appreciating both like how beautiful the old and the new is so that they are taking the time for it to really like tell the stories and things like this. In West, it seems to me rather that we think throughout the whole year that the old is obsolete. We don't really necessarily show the respect. And then during the traditional holidays, we say, OK, now it's the time. To appreciate all to spend the time with the family and to, for example, show appreciation by buying a present. But throughout the whole year, you rather like you are rather in the new, in the innovative and everything. What is, for example, older than 30 years? It's already like passe. It's taboo. It's not going with the flow, etc.
00:37:14
So it's it's a really like different culture of how. How we are also appreciating the old. And this is something that I also miss in Western culture nowadays, especially like when it comes to the seniors that I see a lot in the system that we are not really like, for example, taking air, taking care properly of the seniors in our system, etc. Whereas in Asia, it's really appreciating the wisdom and like highlighting the. This is also together with the new. So thank you for mentioning this, because I think that we can just take the lesson from this here in Europe and in the West in general. And I want to use the opportunity that you are here because you have a really big audience on Chinese social media.
00:38:12
So what lessons have you learned about engaging audiences across different cultural landscapes? So do you, for example, see because you said that? Yeah, this is the face for the Chinese social media. Whereas like when I go to the UK, not a lot of people, for example, turn off. So is there like some different engaging trends that you are using? And do you also see that the followers from the West might be interested in like your opinion about China, etc. So with Chinese audiences, they do like to see foreigners living their life, ideally in China, but it could be anywhere in the world. They want to see their interaction almost like bloggy style, eating in restaurants or going to museums or traveling. And that blog style really works on Chinese platforms.
00:39:09
So you don't have to be based in China, but certainly giving the audience an idea of your life. And the affluence behind it. You know, I'm living a great life and that's what they want to aspire to. And there isn't a kind of negativity, I'd say, what you get in the West is if someone's driving a nice car in the West. Maybe if apart from America would be the exception to this rule is you don't think, 'wow, how did you get there?' You want to find out, you know, how did you build a business? Did you work hard? You know, what was the struggle to get there? Which is very similar to, you know, if you drive a car in America, they went, 'wow, how did you get this?' And, you know, in London it's probably going to get scratched.
00:39:59
So in China, they want to see, you know, your life, your daily kind of activity. So that would be an easy win in China. And I think another easy win is obviously English. So, I'd say out of all the countries in Asia, they Chinese a real emphasis on learning English. They want to improve their English. And wanting to better themselves with language is a huge part of their culture. So doing any kind of like English style teaching or culture or any language that matters. I've seen Italians, I've seen Spanish, I've seen French do very well in their own languages on these platforms as well. I mean, good luck me being an English teacher on Instagram. Would it work? Probably not. Right.
00:40:50
But certainly if I was to do more of that kind of content, which I've done in the past, picking a one-word, explaining what it means, you know, linking it with Chinese culture is a real easy win. You can still do the classic kind of gym influencer and all the food influencers. These definitely work as well. But. You're just more likely to grow on Chinese social media. I would say you do any kind of content. They consume it a lot quicker, a lot faster. I mean, if they have a one-second spam when they are actually scrolling, then of course you get bigger views. The one thing I will say that is not that popular compared to the West, but is becoming popular. Is podcasts. So podcasts are not massive in China.
00:41:49
You know, you usually see the kind of 30-second clips. You know, you'll see the class. I'm not going to name all the podcasts, but, you know, you've got Joe Rogan's Alex Mosey, you know, those kind of inspirational ones that they'll take clips from that in China. And that's popular. There are equivalents of Spotify and Apple Podcast kind of platforms now in China, which are becoming more popular. But honestly, an easy way in China is a nice 30-second video on anything. Any topic that is relevant, that is inspirational, educational. Well, I like to turn this great one for your audience is edutainment. So educating the audience, but entertaining them at the same time. So an example for anyone out there that is thinking about starting a brand is document your business ups and downs.
00:42:49
You know, you mentioned earlier about the failures like 'judge me on my failures', which is a great, great phrase. Everyone's focus is on the success in China; they want to see those ups and downs. I'm having a terrible day today – no one's responding to my messages. And then the next day is like, 'oh, I killed it'! Because last time I sent a load of messages on LinkedIn and email. And I really struggle like really hustled and now signed two or three clients. That kind of entrepreneurial journey is what they want to see in China. China is going for a bit of a they're going through obviously lots of issues like lots of countries. A big one is youth unemployment right now, particularly the big cities.
00:43:29
It's huge in China. And, you know, I do my best to hire young people as much as I can. But if you were to do a video right now, as you're a young person, what are the tips to get your dream job? That would be an absolute winner in China. Wow. So definitely like for anybody who is now listening to us. These are just quick tips. If you will download, like me, the red note on how to start to be influencer in China. And what about community? Are they also really crazy about the community aspect? Because right now there is a boom in online courses, online communities. And things like this. Is it also in China? So live streaming is massive here, right? It's such a big part of communities, right?
00:44:19
Live streaming in the West is kind of become a thing. It's not still not massive. Live stream selling has become a bit of a thing, I guess, in the West, particularly with TikTok shop. But live streaming is part of the DNA here in China. So your platform is something that actually I don't do enough of. I should really do a lot more live streaming. But it does take a lot of stamina to do it. You know, your brain always comes out a bit buzzing. You need to also have the slot in your calendar. You need to prepare what exactly you want to speak about. And you are not in the mood. It's not that easy. I also should do more. Yeah. A great one is you just put open LinkedIn and just live stream.
00:44:58
I've seen that before. But certainly, live streaming is a way to build that community. So, obviously, you've got your content. But also doing live streams a few times a week or once a week is a great way to build those communities. What doesn’t get said actually is that how close-knit the foreigner community is in the major cities. So, you’re Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Chengdu, particularly in Shanghai. The sort of cohesion between the Chinese and the foreigners in Shanghai in particular is so close. There’s great offline events, great community events. To really grow your brand, business. Whatever you're doing. But if we relate it to social media, the community, they don't really have discussion boards that are popular like a Reddit or community notes on Twitter. Like that kind of stuff.
00:45:55
What they have is on WeChat. You have WeChat groups. So WhatsApp, you have your WhatsApp groups. On WeChat, you have groups where you discuss topics. You share content. So WeChat is a big part of that. And then Little Red. So Red Note is very similar. They have groups. And you can do the same on Douyin, on TikTok. But, yeah, people like to get in communities. They like to have discussions and, you know, discuss what's going on. And I think that's a big misconception. Nobody talks about all the major issues. Things are still discussed here. Right? Like you're seeing in the West. So it's a great forum to express ideas and also discuss what's going on. I really like how there are differences. Like, for example, podcasts are now coming into China.
00:46:57
It's a really big boom there. Or, like, it's not that lots of people are doing podcasts now. But there are consumers. There is a market potential. It's not oversaturated as here in the West. And on the other hand, they do a lot of livestreaming, which we don't really do. But it might boom in the future more. Because we are kind of limited to TikTok where you need to have over 10,000 followers, I think. Instagram lives are not that much interactive as TikTok. So it's really interesting to compare the trends in the different countries and continents. I have a last question. And it's what advice would you give yourself if you were to go back 14 years ago when you were moving to China or if you would be, if you would just get idea to move to China, what advice, practical advice would you give yourself before coming to China to prepare for?
00:47:58
Or what would be the first thing you would do when you would arrive in China if you wanted to establish a business? Or what would be the first thing you would do when you would want to establish your brand there? Well, firstly, I would worry less. Right? And this is always a big thing with mental health and going through bad times nowadays is you've had bad times in the past. You got through them. You will get through them again. Right? And you can’t go through life just having absolute success and every day goes perfectly. So, what I would tell myself is probably you're going to have ups and downs. Especially when you grow a business. And you've got to be prepared for that. And that's part of life.
00:48:39
You can’t have a business that just scales and everything goes amazing. Right? So, that’s what I would tell myself. And also I’d probably say learn the language and meet even more people. It isn’t what you know. It’s who you know. So certainly with the language, I would have hung out with even more Chinese people, eaten with them, immersed myself, gone to karaoke with them or sat down with them. Just spoken with them more. I wish I'd done that earlier. If I could go back in time, I would never have gone to university in the UK. Could have gone to university when I was 18 to China. Had full scholarship. No debt. Really great degree. Come out fluent in a language. Probably richer now.
00:49:23
So certainly the language would have been one thing. Just meet more people and get myself out there. And probably start business early. I kind of see that as a double-edged sword. I did the whole office jobs in different organizations. And it gave me some skills and network, and you know, everything does happen for a reason. But if I could go back in time, I would start businesses earlier. Because your first business isn't necessarily going to be your last business. And also, you're going to learn so much. I think you learn so much from being entrepreneurial. You learn the struggle. You learn the, you know, being at the top. The top is very lonely. But you build a team around you. So I think the benefits of growing a business and being entrepreneurial outweighs working corporate or for a company.
00:50:13
Unless you really love it and you love your boss and your colleagues. And what you do. So I know the last thing I will say is a lot of people say, 'oh, I do what I love.' But I also understand that sometimes in the beginning you don't always do what you love. You have to kind of try different things. So I certainly went through that. And now I'm in a stage in my life where I really love what I'm doing. Especially with anyone watching this. You have to work bloody hard. Right? You can't just expect the rewards and the money and the success without putting in the hours, putting in. And a lot of people don't want to do that nowadays. I'll leave you with a final, final tip, which I've been doing recently just for LinkedIn.
00:50:59
Which is the personalized video. Oh, yeah. So if I wanted to connect with you, Marie, I am not going to send you a message or use AI. I am literally going to film a 30-second video and make it very personal to you, your posts, what you're doing. Probably increases my chances tenfold of you opening my video and interacting with what I'm doing. You might go with what I'm doing or you might just say thank you so much. It's personalized. But it's such a great thing. It's such an easy win nowadays. So that would be the final thing. I would have told myself ten years ago when I set up LinkedIn, don't send people messages. Video yourself and send people videos and be real and know AI. Make it all personalized.
00:51:44
But also utilize AI. So make things automated as well. So use that combination. So that would be my advice for myself and for anyone out there. Nice. Definitely like for those who are listening to us, don't wait until you learn Chinese to actually move to China. So move to China and learn Chinese there because then it can take decades actually for you to move to China. And just a question. Is actually LinkedIn popular in China? So LinkedIn is restricted in China. They've got their own . cn version. However, a lot of people use a VPN. So that's one thing. Personally, for my business, decision-makers are usually outside of China. So actually using that content. But you'll see a lot of people on LinkedIn that are in China using the content.
00:52:42
You'll get a lot of, for your brother's purposes, for sourcing, you'll get a lot of those factories and guys that are manufacturing products on LinkedIn. It's a popular platform. But it's really interesting. In China, they don't really have an equivalent of LinkedIn. They don't have. It's the one thing they haven't copied. A copy of LinkedIn, which I was always surprised at. Why don't they have a professional service for that? So there are job boards and things like that. But nothing like LinkedIn. So LinkedIn is such a valuable resource for business nowadays. You can start a business from zero. And pretty much with your network. However many people you've got, most people have got at least 500 connections. Out of those 500, maybe five people will be interested in what you're doing.
00:53:35
But yeah, you do find people in China are using it. It's not a great way to promote a business in China. I'll say that. If you want to promote a business in China on LinkedIn, probably not going to happen. But you'll get some traction. But you have to use the Chinese platforms. But yeah, such an invaluable resource. I'd say LinkedIn. I picked up so much business and built my brand on there. Because it's professional and a bit of lifestyle. And this is why we have actually people like you who are making the bridge between the Western world and China. Who are actually then bringing and connecting with the different cultures. But it's interesting with LinkedIn. I will definitely search more about it. Maybe they have low unemployment rate in China.
00:54:23
They don't really need it in this case. There is also potential gap on the market that nobody yet copied it. So, you might be maybe the one who might initiate this idea in China. So I'll correct you. High unemployment rate. They've got a rising high unemployment rate. So for Chinese talent, I mean, that's a great point. I'm actually being approached by the big kind of recruitment companies right now to really target Chinese individuals. Because you've got this huge graduate kind of cohort of people. They've got really intelligent; they're very employable. But there's no big companies to kind of target them. So, you're seeing big recruitment companies really targeting young Chinese because they're talented. Talented people. So it's something to bear in mind. It's a recruitment tool as well. All right.
00:55:21
So this was quite a ride about the Chinese culture. B2B. But also branding and how you can excel on social media in China. So thank you so much, Daniel, for sharing with us these insights. Maybe is there some final, final, final thought that you want to share with our audience? Something that we didn't really touch upon, but you want to highlight it? Something that you would like to share with the rest of the world about your B2B branding or China or anything else that we didn't touch upon? Something that you would like to give particular attention to? I mean, we didn't really touch on AI, right? AI is massive, right? But the one point I do want to make is I think there's a bit too much AI right now.
00:56:08
I think there needs to be almost like a balance. So certainly utilizing and automating with AI and utilizing it as a tool. But also that personal touch is something that really needs to be hammered home. But for anyone out there, being in touch-that's the biggest, biggest way. Send me a video. That would be my best one. Don't just message me, but send me a nice video about short and sweet, 30 seconds. Treat it like an elevator pitch or as we say in Britain, lift, lift pitch. So how you actually present yourself and it's great training for you. So that would be the one, the one that the personalized video would be something I talk about. But particularly with China. Come to China. The flights now are well priced.
00:56:59
I'd say, you know, there's some, the Chinese airlines are actually quite affordable. I'd say I've just flown to Australia for a few, a few hundred euros. So, you know, return. So, you know, the Chinese airlines are good now. They treat you really nicely. The cabin crew is so nice. So that would be my kind of lead. You know, the final thought would be just to come to China. Or you're exploring the Chinese market. Just get in touch. Nice. Really good tip. I will definitely check some tickets after this podcast because I didn't know. So that brings us to the end of this episode of Your Brand, Your Business. Thank you, Daniel, for sharing your insights with us and also to you, to our listeners. Thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe and leave a review. I am Marie and I will catch you next time. Thank you and bye. Thank you. Bye-bye.
