00:04:00
It's great because it's been introducing kind of the concept of red light therapy and physiological adaptations to a broader audience. But for us, our our core technology is around the dosing. And so we spend tens of thousands of man-hours in the physiology, in the medical trials, in the research. And then we've also built our own what they call a Monte Carlo mathematical models for how photons distribute through tissue. And we know what we're trying to trigger from a photoaccepter standpoint in the physiology, in the tissue. And we know where it exists and at what depth of tissue and what it responds to from a wavelength and a light characteristic standpoint. And so, our kind of proprietary research in this space has given us a much more effective dosing model for being able to deliver the most effective level of photons to the photo acceptors.
00:04:48
And again, it allows us to promise and deliver reasonably high expectations for pain reduction, inflammation reduction, soft tissue regrowth and recovery. And so, yeah, we've just been really kind of blessed with a great a great user base who's also guided us in how they have friction points in the use. And so, you know, if you have a huge panel or if you have things that aren't travel friendly from a device standpoint, it just offers more resistance on a daily, more friction on a day. And so our goal from a product design has been to reduce these friction points and help people start using this and building habits around it so that they can really replace a lot of the more damaging pharmaceutical solutions in the space. That's amazing.
00:05:34
I really love it because also actually my grandma, she stole my Kineon. I bought one when we were in the health optimization summit and she had a problem with a knee. But every time when she went to doctor, they gave her pills or injections and it didn't really help. It was. It was even more painful. And then she just stole my Kineon because it just was so really helpful for her. And I really like also what you said that it's about the dosing because we also have, for example, a red light sauna at home. However, it's really good, like, for example, for relaxation to like expose your whole body. But you don't really feel, for example, that your exact injury would, for example, heal at a certain place.
00:06:16
So, for example, I had an injury. And then when I'm exposing My body to the like a red light sauna, it's rather for relaxation, for meditation, but it doesn't really repair the tissues, the soft tissues, etc. And this Kineon device was really helping me that I, for example, put it around the certain place and immediately it started to heal. And I could see immediate, immediate improvement of that place. Also of my grandma. I mean, she started to run around after usage. So it's a just speaks about itself. That's so exciting. That's really kind of our, our focus for the company is, has been to, to help people kind of, and we've, we've, it's been so exciting because we get to deal with kind of NFL or NBA players or, or, Premier League soccer players.
00:07:04
But to be honest, personally, the, the most kind of motivating part of my job is seeing our older cohort where this really isn't like I need to make a performance change. This is actually life-changing for them because they can get up and down stairs. Now they can actually sleep again without that chronic pain. And those, those kind of testimonials come in, you know, really almost on a daily basis right now. And it, and it's, you know, whenever you're tired or, or, you know, overworked, we go into our group where the testimonials are posted and just kind of look through these impacts that we're having on people's lives. And it's so exciting. It's just, it really kind of builds the energy back up for our team. That's really nice.
00:07:38
And Karen, so you are based in which country? The Kineon and yourself, is it in the same country? No, actually our, our, our team is spread all around the world. So we've, we've approached this with a goal; it's a, a, an idea that we, we find world-class people regardless of what the geography is. And then we use technology to kind of bridge the gaps and help bring everyone together. But I'm, I'm based in Mexico. I'm American originally. I'm based in Mexico. My business partner, Tom, is from the UK. He's British and he's based in Malaysia. But we, I think our team, we have a team meeting monthly and we're, we're covering, I think, 14 different time zones now. So whenever you show up for a team meeting, somebody's in their pajamas and somebody's having their morning coffee.
00:08:22
And it's, it's great. You get to see kind of the best, best of the best from around the world. We have the same in Innovatology. We are also based globally. It's a, I also feel that it's a future of the work that you just take the people from the different geographical areas with the different talents, and the diversity. It just brings a really nice creativity into the product. And you then can also work closer together if you have also the similar kind of mindset. And by the way, coming to Mexico. Next week. So it's also quite a coincidence. If you have a chance, come visit us. We're here, you know, training, testing out, you know, a hundred different recovery modalities, different training modalities for, you know, trying to, trying to stay as healthy and as much in the thrive state as we can.
00:09:06
So yeah, if we can connect while you're here, I'd love to. And where exactly in which city in Mexico? I'm in Queretaro. It's, it's in central Mexico, just north of Mexico City. And it's, it's a really amazing kind of dynamic, fast-forward. It's growing like really cool town. It's, it's, it's been, been here for a few years now, usually living in China. I lived in China for almost 20 years before I moved here. Okay. Interesting. I never have been in China and it will be my first time in Mexico. So definitely you give me some ideas also about other destinations that I have to visit because it's really an inspiration to always come to the different countries and to just absorb, to just absorb the new for Kineon. Because do you also do?
00:09:48
You said that you have like a testimonial center, you do researches. So what's next for Kineon? What in terms of this device, or I also saw in the health optimization summit, also another gadget, I think that you currently have in stakes. Yeah. So our plan is to continue rolling out the devices really in line with our mission, which is how can we improve people's quality of life? So our next product is a gut health product. And the reason we've, we've moved forward with that is because your gut is really at the center of so many different things, so many different systems. I think, you know, it's more commonly known now that the gut-brain access is a really powerful access for how you're, how you experience life on a, on a daily basis.
00:10:31
But there's also kind of gut-liver and other axes that you impact by treating the gut. And so we're super excited to bring this product out. We'll be delivering it by the end of this year. So December, January is when we're going to start delivering our, our 'Gut Pluses' is the device. It's four different levels. It's laser wavelengths, and it's extremely impactful for a number of different things. One is, is impacting brain chemistry, increasing dopamine and serotonin, and things like brain-derived neurotrophic factor that are, are kind of linked with the neuroplasticity that we'd all like to be able to carry on in our lives that we have when we're young and tends to drop off from a, from a brain chemistry as we age.
00:11:13
But being able to trigger that by gut treatment is one of the things that's been very powerful in the, in our lives. Yeah. So we've been working with the, the, the medical research and the literature over the past five to 10 years. And then we also have a, a vagus nerve and EEG-enabled vagus nerve stimulation device, which is really one of the things that we've committed to as, as a mission is to improve people's quality of life. But then the key point for us is to be held accountable for that. And so how can we measure it? And this is one of the things that we're going to be doing with all of our products moving forward over the coming years is introducing in sensor feedback loops.
00:11:47
So, with an EEG, we can measure vagus nerve activity. We can measure heart rate activity. We can measure respiratory activity and we can build a picture of, you know, what people are, what kind of state people are in relative to their autonomic nervous system-are they in fight or flight? Are they in rest or digest? And when they are in fight or flight, how can we help trigger them with electrical stimulation to the vagus nerve? And it's very interesting. It's even with our early prototypes, we're looking at being able to see kind of before. This, this picture of that kind of fight or flight state and then during treatment and then short-term, middle-term, and long-term adaptations that people can make because of this.
00:12:28
And I think it's still early days in the data, but you know, a couple of things that we're seeing decrease are chronic anxiety and ruminative thoughts. And then one of the biggest measures for the combination of those two things is a measurement they call time to sleep. So, you know, if you, if you lay down in bed and you have. A number of things going through your head that are not necessarily thoughts that you'd want, that are kind of unwanted thoughts coming in that keep you from going to sleep. So these are, these are generally termed ruminative thoughts. And by being able to reduce those in a five to 10 minute session, even with our early devices, we're, we're taking that two hour kind of, you know, people who have these type of, of sleep issues, taking that two hour time to sleep down to under 10 minutes with it, with a very, you know, a very simple.
00:13:15
And, and. Yeah. It's, it's really exciting to see that because sleep is so important and there's just so many people out there with, particularly in our modern world with you know, the, the social disconnect that we're at the number of things that we're kind of triggering from a, a doom scrolling and, and you know, all of these different electrical devices that we interact with. Many of them are, are triggering less than healthy mental wellness and being able to, to trigger a vagus nerve, being able to understand and diagnose. And then. And then trigger a vagus nerve shift so that people can go back to recovering more effectively and to not having these ruminative thoughts is a really powerful tool. So we're, we're super excited to bring that one out as well.
00:13:57
I'm also really excited. I actually have now one device, which is actually stimulating a vagus nerve. I don't know if you know, and it's a, that you put it like around your neck and we actually did also, we also did podcast with the CEO of, and he has also really interesting like story, et cetera. And it's really like when you are stimulating the vagus nerve, like your cheeks are actually like, like, you can like feel it. And so it's the vagus nerve, it's a really powerful to stimulate. You can also do it by, for example, humming or meditation. Like when you do, for example, for like 20 minutes after 20 minutes, you're stimulated. However, these devices-it's also for our audience, these devices, when you use the stimulations of the vagus nerve, like for example.
00:14:46
Yeah. For example, the electronic devices, it can actually help you to gain time because you can activate your vagus nerve within like five minutes, 10 minutes, depending on your exact problem. If you have a stress, anxiety or the sleep issues and it just gains you the time. So you don't need to hum for at least like 20 minutes, but you can stimulate it within less. So I would be really interested in your solution and how different it would be with other competitors on the market currently. But also I wanted to speak about the brain, brain, gut axis, because this is something really, I think. Underestimated in a nowadays society, like a brain-gut axis is actually also for our own day audience to understand that there is a research behind that.
00:15:39
Actually, the mitochondria that is in the stomach is actually influencing our brain. So there is an axis that the more you care about what you eat, the more you care also about brain, about your brain. You can have also less, for example, brain folks. If you care about what you eat and how you care about your stomach as such. So, this one is a really interesting that is also coming for you the end of this year. And you said that there will be like six lasers. So among them, there's like a it's, it's based on the red light therapy. Or what are the other ones? The other lasers that will be in that device provided primarily infrared because we need the infrared to be able to penetrate more effectively.
00:16:26
The red actually, the red is good; we actually use a deep red to be able to bring more blood to the surface, kind of superficial tissue in the area. But there's three wavelengths. The one that has been traditionally most effective has been the 808 to 810 nanometer wavelength, which is a near infrared. There's there's. Over the past two to three years, there's also been testing and trials with basically in the 905 to 940 range. And we're testing with a couple of different wavelengths in that space to optimize it as much as possible. And then one of the other ones that actually penetrates very effectively and triggers some different photo acceptors and outcomes in the body is 1064. And so we're building in 1064 as well as a fourth wavelength.
00:17:12
And essentially, you know, what we noticed when we were building our our laser therapy models for how photons distribute through tissue around our first product, the Move Plus, was that this was a really effective dosing model. And that nobody really had an existing version of this that had been mapped against outcomes and the actual physiological responses. And so one of the things that we're doing with this now is we are building systems that leverage this dosing model in the most effective way possible. And so it allows us to build additional products that are going to be able to dose harder-to-dose parts of the body. And so, you know, as an example, we've got the the gut product that we'll be launching, launching next.
00:17:56
We'll also be launching a Femtech product that essentially was triggered by a number of our users from the move plus having amazing results for in treating endometriosis. And that started our research team down a rabbit hole into why are we seeing these really, really powerful responses in reduced pain and inflammation for endometriosis. And what's come out of that is not just endometriosis, but treatments for perimenopause and menopause, fertility and dysmenorrhea. So monthly menstrual pain and inflammation is actually a huge level of inflammation that again, our team is primarily male. And this was something that we weren't familiar with. But as you dig into it, the photobiomodulation treatment is almost perfectly suited because. The ovarian tissue and the uterine tissue are actually very high density of mitochondria.
00:18:47
And it's also kind of monthly menstrual inflammation is one of the highest inflammation rates in all of the human experience by orders of magnitude more than kind of a recovery or an injury type thing. So it's been, you know, it's unfortunate that there's not more research going into female-specific pathologies like this. But it's something that once we started digging into. That our community kind of flagged for us about their amazing experiences with this, where they were going from an eight out of ten in pain. And almost kind of disabled for the day or two days around this endometriosis to zero within 20 to 30 minutes of treatment. And it's, you know, when, when you hear one person say this as anecdote, but when you hear 30 or 40 people, we had, we had to go trigger our, our medical team to go look into it and understand a little bit more about why we were seeing such powerful responses.
00:19:40
That's a really impressive. Also. I wanted to look from the other's experiences because I wanted to ask, like, when you are really male, like, how did you come up actually with that? The women are also having this kind of issue, but you have actually clarified, so I don't need to ask it, but it's really interesting because I also recently I was in the office and one of my colleagues just told me that she's claustrophobic. And usually I know about claustrophobia and about other phobias. But she actually was telling me more about how it influences her life, like how she needs to make different choices in what she does on a daily basis. And it really gave me a different perspective on situation in a simple situation.
00:20:24
For example, how you cook at home or like how you go to toilet because she needs to think about what kind of doors are implemented in the toilet and that she doesn't understand why this material is used for toilet. Why not that one? Because she feels claustrophobic around the different types of materials. And I was like, wow, this is totally like different. Perspective on an issue that if you're not in that kind of skin, you don't really like think about it. You just are like a usual customer. But then, when you dig deeper into other people's perspectives, like, for example, you had with a female, you're like, wow, this is just so impressive that not more people are interested in this. And why we actually didn't dig deeper in this, like, in the science or or these things.
00:21:09
So it's super impressive that you, that you are. Actually getting there with also females, because it's it's still like 50 percent of population, which are female. And we will also have probably an issue in the future with the artificial intelligence; in this case, most of the like scientific articles and researches are actually loaded into AI. And if we don't take into consideration the female perspective, all of the artificial intelligence will be trained on the male, the male example. There are no other examples which can trigger also wrong decision-making to exclude us with the first set of the population's. Yeah, there's a there's a certain imbalance there. And it's crazy. And we didn't you don't you know, if you're not looking into it from a research standpoint in the first place, you just don't realize this.
00:21:57
And so for our team, it was kind of an epiphany that this is something where it's completely under researched. That if you compare, you know, as an example, we did a bit of a dive on the amount of money going into erectile dysfunction versus endometriosis. And it is tens of thousands of times more funding going for erectile dysfunction, which is just, it seems crazy. Endometriosis is affecting something like 12 to 14% of the female population, and in about half of those cases, incapacitating people for days a month. And it's just crazy that that's not more heavily researched. And it's nice now that we've kind of flagged this with our internal team, because there's a gap there. And it fits our technology extremely well. So we're very happy to be able to kind of bring something to market.
00:22:46
But as a systemic kind of outcome, it's just crazy. It's almost inexplicable. So this is also a reminder for our audience that when you have some issue from your perspective, you just should speak up. Give the feedback to the product owners, to the people, to the CEO about your own problems, because sometimes it's always really good to speak about other people's perspectives, because it can then trigger a change, which, for example, it did in Kinéon, that somebody shared the feedback, and then other people, other females, etc. This is just a reminder to speak up about and giving a feedback. I also, I'm an entrepreneur myself. And it's always, it's always like, I'm an entrepreneur. I really like this kind of like thinking, you know, there is, for example, what do you want for Christmas or for a birthday, and then it's not about like, when you're an entrepreneur, it's not about the money or getting a gift.
00:23:43
But it's rather about, for example, a review, give your friend a good review of their product for their birthday, because this is sometimes the best gift that you can give them on important days, etc. Yeah. Or, you know, one other thing that really helps, and I think that's been so important for us in communicating with our, we have a very tight community, and they provide us really amazing feedback that's helped us drive product design decisions and product roadmap. But one of the things that I think has been really important for us in that aspect is you have to have a community that's open to giving critical feedback as well. And you have to have a team that's open to critical feedback, because it's great to have positive feedback. Hey, this is working great.
00:24:30
Let's all go. Let's all go into the, you know, into the shiny, shiny sunset. But, you know, being able to take on meaningful, critical feedback is really what drives a lot of the changes that we can make from a product standpoint, from an adoption, from helping people build habits. And you have to have both the team, you have to have both the community that feels comfortable to provide that, but also the team that's going to accept it. And I think we've been really lucky in the team that we've built that they've been very connected with our community. And really have taken on that critical feedback in a really positive way. Nice. Yes. It's also like I have, for example, this is what I like about my brother, because I always say that when I have some idea and if it doesn't get through my brother, then it doesn't, it's not going to be successful because he's the biggest critic of myself.
00:25:20
Not in like a bad way, but he always like have really like a strong opinions about the products, about the websites that there are. So every time when I do something. If it doesn't get through my brother, it's then, yes. So this is, this is always good to have, have, uh, also the criticism because you know what you can improve. And, um, I have a question regarding this red light therapy, because it's the main, um, it's the main, uh, focus of the Kineon. When was the first time that you were in contact with the red light therapy? Uh, what was. So, uh, my mother brought it to my attention. Uh, she's been an early adopter, uh, and worked with a number of different kind of functional medicine, doctors and naturopaths, uh, to stay healthy.
00:26:07
You know, I, I think a lot of these things, I, I live very heavily in the science and the data. Uh, and so a lot of the things that come in, I, I would say the hit rate on these things is probably 60% or so, uh, many of them, it comes in and it's like, well, I, I feel like it's my job to, to kind of similar to your brother to disprove these things and say, Hey, that's not correct. Let's this is what the medical literature says about it. And so that was my first response. It's, it's a very. And we get this still from a lot of people and it's, it's, it kind of makes sense. Like it's how does, like, I'm going to shine a light on my body and expect physiological adaptation.
00:26:40
It's a really kind of unusual and counterintuitive thing to assume. And, and, you know, the other thing that we've noticed with this is that a lot of people are very skeptical about it, not just because it's a, it's a counterintuitive concept, but also because when you can reduce inflammation, the number of pathologies that translates through to impact is very high. There's, there's. So much of the body is so many of the pathologies that we suffer as humans are either metabolically influenced or inflammation influenced. And because we impact both metabolic function and improve metabolic impairment, and also reduce inflammation, we can make a number of claims relative to different pathologies and different outcomes. And I think that's, that raises skepticism, you know, and it did for me as well.
00:27:25
Like how, could you possibly be treating all of these different things? But I think what it comes down to is. We're not treating all these different pathologies, we're treating metabolic dysfunction and we're treating inflammation, and by doing that and kind of the oxidative stress reduction that the devices can make, there was a, a very deep dive for about three months after my mother introduced the technology to me where I just couldn't believe the numbers for it because the there's, there's over 6,000 different medical studies on photobiomodulation or low-level laser therapy, which is essentially light therapy. And in all of these. In all of these models, I think where the dosing models are correct, you see positive outcomes and there's these great kinds of forest plots showing like all of these outcomes relative to kind of.
00:28:10
Placebos or other baseline treatments, and they're all very effective when the, when the dosing is correct. And so it took me a little time to come around and, and lose my skepticism. But the main point of it is that, you know, this, this is a really powerful tool when it's dialed in properly. And, you know,we try to, as a team. Promise. Under promise and over deliver from an expectation standpoint, and the only way that that's possible with a treatment modality like this is to really understand what you're triggering from a photoacceptor in the body and then what that does from a downstream signaling if that makes sense, yes it makes total sense, and it's when you are speaking about the research and like how actually all of the studies are speaking positively about the red light therapy and the photobiomodulation etc.
00:28:58
Do you also collaborate with the health system because like it's very well known that the health system doesn't really it's not really open to these alternatives, but do you see some for example you have some collaboration with some hospitals or the doctors etc? Yes, we have collaboration with hospitals for research and we are also working on a number of different kinds of observational studies that we've kicked off and run with things. Like fibromyalgia and plantar fasciitis. So things as disparate or as different as kind of pain-based pathologies like fibromyalgia or soft tissue-based pathologies like plantar fasciitis, we've seen really powerful results by working on observational studies with hospitals. Going forward, I think one of the things that we're looking at right now is there's a number of really cool companies in the regulatory space that are,
00:29:50
you know, essentially a number of people have noticed that getting products through medical trials is overly expensive and overly complicated and is very uncertainly linked to your outcomes relative to things like FDA claims and indications for use. And one of the nice things that we're seeing right now, and it's a very exciting time to be in the hardware space because of this, is there's a number of new startups. And as an example, Reputable. health is one that we're working with on scoping new trials that are going to be much more accessible because there's so many more devices. So, with these types of disruptive technologies, you know, there's millions of people out there now with a Whoop strap or an Aura ring or, you know, a Levels Health continuous glucose monitor, or there you go.
00:30:37
Yes. This now with the data, we can take our users and have people opt-in who have a Whoop strap, who have, you know, continuous glucose monitor, who have different HRV kind of tracking, who have different electrical signal tracking in their body. And we can build out a more robust picture of longitudinal data across, you know, six-year-olds to 70-year-olds, what people are, how people are responding to these different treatments. And so it's really, it's an exciting time to be in the space. And we're kicking off later this year and early next year, a couple of new studies that are gonna be based around these types of ongoing longitudinal data, labs relative to people's kind of health and responsiveness to different therapeutics.
00:31:21
Super interesting that like the health system is actually open to it, especially now with the technology innovations are related to innovatology. We're going faster and faster into the spheres that we wouldn't have imagined just a few years ago, which makes it so much easier for the people to actually analyze and optimize their health based on the HRV, heart rate, sleep data, et cetera, because of the variables. And it's also really accessible. It's like, you know, before we had a telephone, which was based in each household, you couldn't put it in your pocket. Today, everybody has their own phones and with these variables and with these things, we can optimize our health much easier. Also, like Kinēon, that we can have it at home and decrease the inflammation.
00:32:11
So I think that also the health system in the future will need to come through some kind of revolution, let's say, because we will no longer need to come to the doctor without having the data, what works or what doesn't work. And, like, based on these variables, I think that it would make so much sense if we would just come to the doctor and we would be like, 'Yeah, this is my HRV. This is my heart rate; my sleep data. Can you please tell me what I do wrong? Because I tried everything, and I don't know what's going on. And then we can just try; we can like analyze also based on the variables. Again, if it works or not, but currently it's really rigid, but I see that there are a bit of movements.
00:32:52
Also, for example, the Wim Hof method; I also was in Netherlands this year with Wim Hof and he was also saying about the health system that it's really rigid and he tries to introduce the ice baths into the hospitals because there is also like a research is behind that the ice baths can help with, for example, cancer and that they have actually researches on the oncology, children oncology, where it's actually helping. But when he was asking, so why you don't introduce the ice bath in the children oncology, when you know that it works; and they were like, because the system is rigid, we don't, we have money, but we, it's like so slow to actually get, get it into our system that it will take time. It's slightly sad.
00:33:41
It takes time and it's uncertain and it takes time and money to go through that. So either, you know, what you find in the space and we've been kind of working on the same type of thing is to get into these hospital systems. Either you have, you know, a huge amount of money or, we've, we've been kind of an organically grown bootstrapped company. We didn't go raise a huge amount of money to go through with that. But what we find is when there are technology devices that, that throw the money at it, because there's so much uncertainty, they end up charging huge rates for it. And so it makes it very hard for adoption. But one of the, one of the kind of encouraging things that we're seeing is, and change always comes at the margins.
00:34:15
So we're, we're seeing, we're, we're building out a number of medical practitioners who are using the devices in their kind of with orthopedic surgery and recovery with chiropractic clinics, with physical therapy clinics and things like this. What we're finding with this is that there's the number of tools that are out there for people to be able to use for this type of application are limited. But when you start giving people an opportunity to test this on themselves and on their patients, they really see better outcomes and they want that. These, these medical professionals want this. And so the private clinics that are, that are providing these different types of services have been much faster to adopt. And we're, we're seeing a huge adoption in that space over the last six months.
00:34:59
And we think it's going to explode more in the near future because the outcomes are there. These medical professionals really care about their patients. They really want to make a difference, but when they're part of a larger organization like a hospital or a chain of hospitals, it makes it much more difficult. So these private clinics have been much faster to adopt. And it's, and it's something I think that we're going to see hopefully spreading from that to the larger organizations as well. Yes, me too. I hope to see it soon, but as we said, the reality and the wish are somewhere different. I have a bit of personal question too, because you're doing in the health sector with like this wearable Kineon, Red Light.
00:35:37
So I guess that you also take care a lot about your health when you are doing in this industry. So can you tell us more, some tips and tricks, on how actually good day, like health-optimized day looks like according to you? So like from the time when you wake up until the end, can you tell us some tips and tricks? What do you do in Mexico? No problem. I actually consider myself as an N of one for testing. So we test a ton of different protocols. And I'll tell you the ones that have stuck. And if you have more time, I can go into the ones that didn't stick and why, but the ones that have stuck is a 40-degree ice bath for four minutes every morning.
00:36:16
And then the ones that didn't stick, I can go into the ones that didn't stick in the morning, followed by, and this is pre-coffee straight out of the bed. My friend refers to this as eating the frog. So you have to eat the frog. You have to do your most difficult thing of the day before you go into anything else. And so I do two things. One is the straight-out-of-bed ice bath, and then straight-out-of-the-ice-bath onto an assault bike or an Echo bike. So these air bikes are really powerful for metabolic conditioning. You can actually, like the, because they are air resistance, the resistance increases. So if you increase as you're biking it, you know, one, one cycle per minute, which isn't a huge increase, the actual increase in resistance is massive on that.
00:36:56
And so it's a really good way to go do interval training straight out of the ice bath. And it really starts triggering a really healthier kind of metabolic condition for the body, which is really powerful, not just for losing weight or kind of looking better, but really has strong impacts on your cardio pulmonary system and on your brain. And, and for me, you know, I'm not competing, you know, at a professional level for sports right now, but I would like my brain and my body to be as healthy as possible for as long as possible. And metabolic conditioning is a really powerful way of doing that. Then yeah, essentially kind of a low-carb type, general, general diet, low-ish carb and using carbs as a fuel, essentially pre-pre-workout for the rest of the day.
00:37:38
There is a couple other things that have been super helpful from a recovery standpoint. With the, with the laser therapy, there's a Japanese group that's done a great amount of study on something they call the proximal priority therapy, which is essentially treating the blood in your major vessels in your neck. So every morning I treat the, treat the neck for 15 minutes like this. And then I treat my gut because the gut also triggers a number of different downstream positive impacts for the brain and blood from a health standpoint with things like sleep and recovery. Mouth tape has been life changing. We have a couple of friends with mouth tape companies. And if I can, I can send you over some, some referrals for those because it's just life changing.
00:38:18
Breathing through your nose, forcing breathing through your nose as you sleep has been great. We, we do have a brain device that we're working on that we're going to launch from a transcranial photo, photo by modulation standpoint next year. So I'm doing a lot of self-testing at that. And that's been really awesome-it's treating the brain and improving microvascular and, and just general blood flow dynamics in the brain are improved by this. Um, the sauna has been awesome. And, and sauna and contrast therapy is probably three times a week. So not daily, but cause it does take quite a while, but, uh, you know, 20 minutes sauna sessions at, at above 180 degrees, uh, Fahrenheit above a hundred.
00:38:58
So above 90, sorry, uh, Celsius, and then going back into the 40-degree, um, uh, ice barrel, you know, two or three times, uh, like this is a really nice one. That's been, uh, very effective. Um, and then, yeah, there's also some ketone-based things that, uh, so our, our friend's company, uh, ketone IQ, uh, you've probably heard of them. Uh, it makes a great, uh, uh, ketone drink. Um, that's really good for distance work and also helps you kind of, uh, trigger a number of different, um, downstream, uh, impacts from a, a, uh, from health and energy, energetic bioenergetic standpoint. So there's, there's a, yeah, ongoing number of things like this, but, uh, you know, creatine, uh, is a big winner.
00:39:39
Um, yeah, I could probably, I could probably keep going for another, another 15 minutes on this, but I think those are the main ones that have been, uh, and breathwork. I have to say breathwork and meditation life-changing. Uh, there's, there's some good, uh, apps that support this, uh, with, with, uh, I think Wim Hof has something we've been testing one called Other Ship recently. That's a little bit hippie-ish and woo, but is, is very effective in their protocols. And so, yeah, I, you know, judge; judge the, in this case, if you're doing testing yourself, you have to judge the tree by the fruit. So like the fruit works, then we'll, we'll keep it and keep it rolling. Is this other ship from Wim Hof? What, uh, what is it about?
00:40:18
Uh, so I think Wim Hof has a separate app, but other ship is just an app. They actually have retail recovery spaces, but they also have breathing apps. And, uh, so it's, it's people coaching you through guided breathwork from four minutes to an hour long. And, um, there's a number of different protocols and different outcomes you can use it for, for kind of up-regulation, down-regulation, calmness, clarity, et cetera. And, um, you know, testing through those, we actually, uh, it was, uh, referred to me by a friend, Thomas DeLauer, who's, who's a, um, a really a great guy on, on kind of health and wellness testing from a, a, a fitness perspective. And, and, uh, he recommended it and it's been really awesome.
00:40:57
I've just been, been on it, been testing it out for about the last month and a half. And it's been really impactful for my daily mind space from a removing. If you have a dip in the day after you eat, for example, uh, sometimes you have brain fog that comes up from that, particularly if there's a higher carb meal, adding these different types of up-regulations in from a breathing standpoint, post-meal have been really, really, uh, helpful. So there's a number of different things you can apply it for, but, uh, yeah, there's just more and more tools out there. So it's a very exciting time to be in the health wellness space. Yes, I will definitely try it because I have the Wim Hof, uh, application and I'm using it, but definitely always open to try something else.
00:41:32
Also, I can relate to other things like creatine, low carb. I do ice baths, uh, from time to time, but especially when it's actually cold. Because, like, during summer, sometimes in the summer destination, I just cannot find the ice bath. And, uh, it's not yet normalized as for example, sauna that you usually don't really find it in some wellness or fitness. Uh, so it's a bit fitting that, uh, for example, yeah, that they don't really have it in the summer, uh, in some wellness, uh, when you are. And also like when I tell to people that I do ice baths, they're like, Oh my God, you're crazy. Why you do that? Whereas when you say to people, I do sauna, they're like, Oh yeah, that's cool. You know?
00:42:11
So, I really see that still ice baths are something, um, because they didn't, they're more like connecting it. Oh, you are from Czech Republic in Czech Republic. It's cold, right? So, you, you have it like cultural and I'm like, no, we actually don't do ice baths because we are Czech or like, it's not culture. It's just me, myself. I want to do ice baths because it's good for the health. So, it's a very interesting thing for, uh, like, uh, getting the contrast, et cetera. And you said that you're putting, uh, the red light on your stomach to actually, uh, heal your mitochondria. Is it like possible to put it on your stomach? Yes. So, the 808 nanometer, uh, is a, is a really good dosing, uh, wavelength for gut.
00:42:53
And that's one of the things that started us in on developing our more targeted. So again, we're going to add three more wavelengths for that that are specific for gut with our product later this year. So the dosing will be better out of this one, but, uh, the one that we have right now, we, we have a business partner who has irritable bowel syndrome and ulcerative colitis. And, you know, things are really heavy inflammation in the gut makes such a crazy difference, like he would, he would have this flare up and have to go to the hospital and lose 30 or 40 pounds per time. And now when that starts kind of flaring up, he can actually just use the 808 nanometer from the MovePlus to be able to treat that and get that inflammation back down.
00:43:31
And you don't think about how much that impacts you, but like it really took him out of complete functionality for months at a time when that would flare up for him. And so, yeah, we're, we're very excited to be able to, because it is going to make huge kind of lifestyle changes for, for people who use it. Wow. That's cool. Now I have even double motivation to see my grandma, not only that I love her and I want to see her, but also because now I want to track in on my stomach. So I'm really curious about it. I didn't know. If you're, if you're interested as well, one, one other thing that I'm testing right now with our, our early betas for the gut product is there are certain kind of fiber-based molecules that you can, um, supplement with.
00:44:10
I'm testing, I'm testing inulin right now because there's a, a really big impact for using inulin to increase short-chain fatty acid and a number of different other metabolic outcomes from the bacteria in your stomach that just make you healthier. And so we're combining inulin with, uh, the gut therapy. And so, if you're, if you're interested in trying out a new protocol, that, that could be something useful for you as well. Yeah, sounds good. Thanks for the tip. And now I just would like to dive deeper into, because you said that you have lots of things that didn't work for you. So, like you got me a bit teased. So can you disclose? That actually didn't work. Yeah, there's, there's a, there's a number of different things.
00:44:44
So one of the ones is, is super heavy. So I was training competitive CrossFit for some time and I found that the, the central nervous system impacts for me, uh, were too aggressive. So I was doing twice a day, heavy training, heavy lifting. And, um, the, the outcome was I was getting sick. My immune system was, was impacted in my central nervous system and I was just tired a lot. Uh, so central nervous system kind of overload from a, a load standpoint. So modulating kind of workouts to be more, more manageable, um, and kind of moving that in a, in a little bit slower direction than, than kind of the more aggressive ones. And again, this is something that, that may be that it's, it's a kind of middle-aged type thing.
00:45:27
I'm in my mid-forties. Now it might've been something my body would have responded to more effectively in my twenties. Uh, you know, you have to also be able to, to be aware and, and, uh, you know, kind of on top of negative impacts that, that these different type of triggers can have. or recovery modalities that I have done, but yeah, I've, uh, I tried, um, a number of different CBD and THC, uh, type, uh, sleep kind of supplements, uh, that didn't work out quite as well for me. Uh, I think there's a number of different things like this where there's, there's just different supplements out there that hadn't, uh, kind of carried through for me quite as well.
00:45:59
There's a number of different things that are kind of more sugary impactful than kind of different green powders and, and, uh, things like this, where the amount of sugar that was in those, uh, using it on a daily basis were, were kind of had a, had a more negative impact for me from a, a, uh, a body composition standpoint. I think, uh, yeah, there's, there's, uh, there's, there's a bunch of things that don't work, but I think it's like, um, you know, there's, there's, uh, you know, one of the things that we were looking at a while back was, uh, velocity-based training. Um, and I don't think there's anything wrong with velocity-based training, but I just didn't see the results that I was expecting out of it.
00:46:34
So, uh, there's, there were some companies like, uh, push that where you can attach an IMU to your barbell. And see how fast the barbell is moving and adjust your, your training relative to the velocity of, of, uh, that you're able to generate from a power generation standpoint. And again, that didn't, that didn't, uh, didn't work for me super well at the time. Yeah. I think that's the, you know, again, there's, there's a number of those I have to think about a little bit more, but there's, there's, there are a lot of things out there that don't work. And again, you know, it may work for some people. I think we should always kind of think of ourselves as an end of one from a testing standpoint because what works for you may work for you, but not for me.
00:47:09
And, you know, it's, it's the medical literature can lead us in a good direction, but not everyone's that there's our physiology is so multivariate that not everything that works, you know, even in, in very convincing and compelling medical trials is going to work for everyone. And so, test, like test, keep notes and try to find a, a, this is one of the things that's been helpful for me at least is test and keep notes and try to find data points for success versus failure for what your expectations are out of the different treatments. Yes. And it's also about the time. Sometimes, for example, it's not about changing everything from one day to another. There has to be like a really slow change of your body and getting into the new routine.
00:47:51
We don't want you to get a burnout. Definitely. So, and it's about the connection with the body to understand how the body is trying to communicate with you. There were also times, for example, when I was a teenager and I was super jealous about my friends who could eat McDonald's and KFC all the time. And now today, I am like super, actually, happy that my body had this kind of reaction, that I was not eating that much of a fast food because my body just didn't feel good after that. But that time, I was like super sad because I wanted to eat it like them without having any kind of reflection. And it's always about the connection of our body to ourselves and finding what works for us.
00:48:30
But I have to actually like agree with what you said, like for me, like the supplements, which are a mixture of, I prefer like pure supplements. Like for example, when you buy creatine, you take the creatine. When you, for example, buy zinc, you are getting zinc. But the worst of what doesn't work for me is the supplements that are a mixture of different things because you don't have transparency and visibility of what is the exact amount of the certain, certain ingredients inside the supplements. So it's for example, that they add the sugar or for example, there is now a big, big boom because there was a big boom around the supplements, which is called H1. Like everybody was talking about it, but now they actually realized that it's not that good.
00:49:15
That actually why they have, why they are so successful is because of the marketing. So it's one of the examples. The CBD, CBD, I have to say, I also didn't like, but it got into another level with the research. So I would say that like three years ago when I tried the CBD, I didn't like it at all. It didn't help me. I felt like after hangover in the morning, but, uh, in the health optimization summit or so, uh, where, uh, we met you actually tried a new CBD. I was a bit skeptical about, because I was telling to the guy who had a standard that I am not really fun of CBD because I didn't felt really good. And he told me that their CBD is, uh, actually after a long research.
00:50:01
So like there is a lots of researches recently about the CBD and they are like the new kind of a modern style of CBDs. And that one worked for me, but still I'm like really slow on that. Like it's not my kind of style and CrossFit. I also totally agree. I prefer to do like, um, I like weightlifting. I do it like three, four times per week, but I like it on my own pace to really feel my muscles and to really like, rather like think, uh, around, but it's also because I am female and I need to take into consideration all of the complex issues, like a cycle, et cetera. So, uh, this is also another aspect. So my last question would be, because you are an entrepreneur.
00:50:43
So what would you advise to other people who are currently in, uh, thinking about the entrepreneurship or they're in the early stage of entrepreneurship, because there are lots of ups and downs in the whole journey. So what would you advise them, uh, to, uh, keep in their mind? Two things that have been very helpful for me and hopefully they can work for other people as well is start with a purpose and then work backwards from what outcome you'd like to like to deliver. Uh, and so when you start with a purpose, again, I, I, you mentioned it earlier, uh, you know, our purpose was to improve the quality of life for the largest number of people we can in the most measurable way we can.
00:51:18
And that, um, that's really kind of run through every single strategic decision, every hire, every kind of go-to-market, our product, uh, roadmaps, everything in the business is built around that. And when it is, when you're connected with that purpose and you see the impact of what you're doing align with that purpose, then those ups and downs, even when you're down, you know, that, that these impacts that you intended to make you're making. Um, and then the second piece that I, I think, uh, someone told me a long time ago and that has been very helpful is, um, envision the outcome that you, that you want to make and then work backwards and do what it takes to make that.
00:51:59
And so a lot of times I think everyone in our, our personal lives and our professional lives can get caught in a default mode, uh, where we're just kind of, you, you, you respond to the email or you respond to the email or you respond to the email. You respond to what's in front of you. But if you don't have that kind of downstream picture of what you really want to do, then you, you kind of get pulled into the current of reactiveness and responsiveness instead of really driving change and driving what you'd like to see being the change that you'd like to see, uh, type of thing. And, and, uh, being able to work backwards makes a huge difference. Yes. So, you are then fighting on many fronts. Yes.
00:52:35
So thank you so much for us, for this discussion. We really went, uh, from a really detailed explanation of the Kineon into actually what works for you for the health optimization. And, uh, we covered also the purpose of the entrepreneurship, which for example, for us in innovatology is actually to close the digital gap and to equip you with the new tools and then new innovations to make your lives personal or professional more effective. And I hope that Kineon would also help you to make your metabolism more healthy and also inflammation to decrease it so that you have less. So thank you so much and see you in our next episode. Bye.
